What language to communicate in?

[red_alert]

Well, you might have noticed it: There's 4 languages (officially) spoken in Switzerland. And so it is for any nation-wide political party - including us. You probably noticed that the number of members with French as their mother-tongue is increasing rapidly. There's even been an interview broadcasted on RSR (Radio Suisse Romande).

Still, forum and wiki are mainly in German. And so is the URL and the party's name. Even though there's some translations in progress.

But do we really want to do everything once in each language? And how do we make sure people not capable of speaking that language get the proper information?

I think the target audience (where our members come from, too) are 'heavy internet users' and 'students' or so it seems. What they have in common all over Switzerland is one thing: they speak English!

So, we don't we change all of our internal communication to English. Because IRC is very real-time communication, we already made that switch there just a short time ago.

I'd propose to use the appropriate languages as follows:
- DE/FR/IT for communication with 'outsiders', e.g. the media - i.e. DE for Zurich's local TV station but all three languages for nation-wide communications (like a press release)
- EN for forum and wiki
- EN for the party's name (i.e. 'Pirate Party Switzerland')
- EN for the founding meeting (unless there's only people speaking German around on July 12)
- DE/FR/IT/EN for the webpage that is hardly there yet - press-information, our targets, etc.

Not sure about the blog: EN since it'd be a pain in the ass to translate, DE/FR/IT because it's communication with outsiders or the-language-the-author-speaks (i.e. only DE or only FR or only IT).

But I reckon I'll get killed within the next 5 or so replies, anyway...but it's worth the try Tell us, what's your opinion? I guess I'll also add this to the agenda items for the founding meeting - but it's good to have this discussed here before (particularly since we will mostly be Swiss-Germans at the meeting because it's held in ZH or AG).

EDIT: added webpage

[Guggenmusiker]

If you choose English as the default language, you just have to write everything once. That's the main advantage. However I see the difficulty in the law. Normally the articles of association (Statuten) are written in one language and translated into others. But there must be one version which is representing the association against the law if a translation is not clear enough or do contain any error. That's why translations often have an appendix concerning ambiguity. As we mostly are German speakers I would write our articles of association in German. I think that's much easier. Then we can translate them into other languages, but the one which must hold against law would be the German one.

[red_alert]

I agree, the statutes should be in German with an English translation. But to set them up is a one-time thing, so it doesn't really matter for this topic Good to have it mentioned, though.

[Simon Rupf]

We're Swiss, we're flexible.

How about to use english language for communication internally when there is the need for speed (ex. IRC), to address all party members or in internal discussions of the committee (after they are elected on July 12th). As soon as we want to communicate with outsiders, not so heavy internet affiliated persons, official communiques or to the press a translation in all languages is a must. For discussions inside the forum IMHO the mother tongue should suffice. Of course one can always switch a discussion thread into english as soon as users of the other language starts to participate. But we should all remember that there are a lot of pirate affiliates who do not speak more then one language.

[Ced]

So, to sum up:

Constitution (Statuten): Deutsch, for legal reasons as pointed out by Guggenmusiker
Internal communication, paper-work and wiki: English
Internal discussion: Preferably English, other languages tolerated
External communication: German, French and - if ressources allow - Italian

Complaints?

[silvermind]

But I reckon I'll get killed within the next 5 or so replies, anyway...but it's worth the try Tell us, what's your opinion?

arr. I'm still thinking about how to kill you pirate great post

[silvermind]

I think we should also have a wiki in german.. good wiki's are great for end users when they can read the stuff

an important question might be how we minimized dupplicated work anyway?

[red_alert]

end users? wtf? we're no software distributor! wiki is internal communication.

well, currently, there's two proposals to minimize duplicated work:
- do as much as possible in english (instead of in all languages)
- create working groups with clearly defined areas of responsibility and let that groups have a leader/coordinator

one thing that will also help in that matter is:
- do everything as transparent as possible so others can see what's being done

[Ced]

Transparency, of course. If everything is discussed in the forum and documented in the wiki, things should me pretty clear to everyone else.
I have the feeling that English would be a good common denominator for internal discussions, documentation and real-life events. The french members should not end up in just translating all the crap we are producing but rather also engage in sone real political work.

[CHli]

I'm for the use of english in internal discussions (so we can also gather ideas from other part of the world)

[HIK3]

For swiss communication (press, website, advertise) i think it's better to use DE/FR/IT if we want to communicate with other country use EN.

[kevae]

I think to if we use GE/FR/IT languages. But if we create 3 section, 1 at Zurich for the swiss-german(the headquarters) , an another for the swiss-french and one for the swiss-italian. but I know to if we have too members for that. I think to it's a good repartition for the future... so the swiss-french people i'm here for create a swiss-french section!

[gagarine]

OK, I don't post before because i need some times and see how the thing run...

Multi language is one of the more critical issue in Switzerland. It's also a really interesting thing...
First one fact: French peoples don't understand the german language. I know is bad but this is the true.

Now the party are only swiss-german: all interface, article, discussion and so are in this language. I think this is really bad. Take for example the forum, each section have a swiss-german title. Same think for the wiki... Sorry, we don't understand.

About majority/minority. I think is alway a bad think to influence choice because for majority X reason. If we do that, majority keep is majority, this is just logic.

For discussions inside the forum IMHO the mother tongue should suffice. Of course one can always switch a discussion thread into english as soon as users of the other language starts to participate.

Cool but we don't understand the subject, so we don't know if this is interesting stuff or not.

So what?
I think we need to use english as much as possible. This is not a easy decision for me because I like my language.

1) The interface, title, navigation, etc must to be by default in English.
2) We need like other language a german section in forum!
3) All important think like, event, decision, pv, etc need to be in English first.
4) Don't be radical. Sometimes mother language can be just easier
5) Translation are always welcome if we have time to this. And we need to have tools to translate all page.

I the future if this party have a future we can change and create section but for now this is not an option.

[silvermind]

thanks for your insights, i'm still thinking about how to solve this issue.. But I think you're right, we shouldn't dupplicate each forum yet.

[kevae]

yes the french people don't understand good the german...i'm so sorry per that but I we're not some good students! Yes it's a good thing to begin with the english for the no-german speaking! .....But for the future, for recuting some people, i think to translate in the 3 languages it'isn't a bad idea!